Alison Rosen

Here’s what I think (about the adult video debate)

Written by Alison | February 1st, 2010 at 1:14 pm | Comments

A delightful gent has written into the comments on this post deriding adult video for turning people into pedophiles, rapists and sex offenders. At first I wasn’t sure whether to approve the comment, since I feel protective of the people I have as guests on my show and don’t want anyone to feel as if I’m inviting them on to be sandbagged. But then I thought more about it and realized that people who work in the field must be used to the arguments for and against adult video, and that if I’m choosing to provide a forum, we may as well have the discussion.

Here are my feelings: I’m not a big consumer of adult video. I know there are women who are super into it and I hear those reports about how it’s much more common than you think, but it just isn’t my thing. My curiosity is more as an interviewer and a human being (I mean, come on, there’s something compelling about the way it’s so polarizing and about the notion of taking something so private and making it public) and let’s not forget my weird foray into the Playboy world when I worked at the OC Weekly.

Sometimes I like to live exclusively in a world of ducklings and puppies, as it’s cute and uncomplicated, but I’m aware that a guy who says he isn’t into it is probably lying. I accept that and I’m fine with it though I’d rather not reflect on it for too long in most cases. Once, years ago, I had a house guest who arrived with some supplies he’d purchased at a bodega including a few adult mags which he was making little effort to conceal. I was concerned with the logistics of said pursuit. Sort of like if I were your house guest and came in with a potter’s wheel and some clay. You might support my interest in ceramics but not want me throwing any pots in your home since who knows where the clay might end up.

So yes, I’m sort of squeamish about the unsavory aspects of it but I support the first amendment whole-heartedly and have a real problem with those who walk around condemning and judging others, especially since, in my experience, the most judgmental people are the ones who are acting in the most hypocritical manner. I tend not to think art leads to violence and I’m sure someone is going to say, “Are you calling porn art?” and so let me rephrase: I tend not to think expression leads to violence. I think inability to express oneself, or censorship of expression leads to violence. And I think guilt about sex or the denial that sex is a very real and powerful force (one which few people know how to talk about in a healthy manner) leads to an array of destructive things.

But mostly I just feel like people are people, everyone is deserving of compassion and an  attempt at being understood, and so long as no one’s being hurt or mistreated, people should be given the freedom to make their own choices.

Stepping off soap box/high horse now!

What do you guys think?

| Posted in Uncategorized, Ustream

  • I applaud you to keep the comments even if they denigrate your guests.

    I was kind of surprised when Ms. Cummz became a recurring guest as opposed to a curiosity.

    Now that the mass media has spawned the celebrities of Kim Kardasian, Paris Hilton, from their sex tapes, it's a relevant discussion.

    But, what would Mrs. G think of you Alison? Really?

    Seriously though...pornography seems to re-enforce racial stereotypes. Black men are portrayed in a way much different than their white counterparts. Also, asian men are largely absent from American pornography. Other than the niche oriented towards black male performers....the main narrative of pornography is white "conquest" of other races. In fact, top earning women are instructed not to perform with black males as this lowers their value to a large portion of their fans. Other girls like Taylor Rain don't have sex with black males on camera or in real life because her father gave her 'traditional' values.

    Part of the racial aspect to pornography operates on the sub-conscious levels. Only astute cultural warrior-sages like myself pick up on these things :)

    Most legal intellectuals don't see freedom of speech applying to issues of obscenity, because pornography is not political speech. Yet, with the right stalag film with the right Nazi dominatrix, and, you can mess with some sacred political archetypes.

    It seems upside down to protect obscenity under free speech. yet, have a cultural climate that wants to limit extreme speech which it labels hate speech.

    While people say it's protected under free speech, then, why is "extreme porn", a la max hardcore and other unmentionables, made illegal? It seems that truly free speech would apply to their 'expression' as well. The only reason to ban extreme porn while 'protecting' free speech of non-extreme porn would be that the standard is that non-extreme porn is not obscene, and extreme porn is. But, that's not what free speechers say. They say that Obscenity itself is a protected form of free speech. Someone has to draw the line, and, and, I really don't see where free speech plays into obscenity. This is like legislating taste. I'd say a nice sin-tax is a good compromise.

    The same people who want to protect the sexual nature of pornography as "free speech", would want to put a gag order on anyone who used pornography to undermine the culurally sensitive topics like, well, anything "hate mongers" target - non-whites, feminists, gays, jews, israel, zionism, etc.

    I mean, do you really support pornography as political speech? Would i theoretically be able to make an anti-Zionist political message by staging a scene of rape of palestinian women by Israeli men? Most would say this is anti-semitic hate speech,....yet, if that's not tolerated, than, is speech really free?

    In a somewhat related news story how pornography is used as a weapon of warfare.

    http://reason.com/archives/2002/04/03/porn-and-... - details how Israeli soldiers occupied Ramallah and broadcast pornography on Palestinian TV as an element in psychological warfare to pacify them and / or disrupt their morality. We also use pornography and sexual forms of "enhanced interrogation" on our detainees.

    If you really want to talk about a controversial topic that will drive ALL types of traffic to your site, you might want to consider taking a position on, or having some guests that have stated positions on Zionism.


    p.s. - "so long as no one’s being hurt or mistreated" - This argument holds no water. No one is allowed to create computer-generated or cartoon / anime pornography depicting children having sex with each other, or with adults. Yet, no one is being harmed when someone draws the cartoons or makes a computer animation. So...this argument holds no water based on current legal precident.
  • Stick your finger in a glass of water, when you pull it out, the hole you leave behind is how much difference this will make in 100 years.
    Folks are free here, in America, to think as they will and to do as they wish as long as they don't hurt another person, why should this be any different?
    Personally, I think that these folks show poor judgment if they get caught up in porn and that sort of lifestyle, but who am I to naysay an idiot? (see the first sentence in my post)
  • johnkacin
    My own opinion is that adult entertainment is an easy target for blaming individuals actions on.The majority of people viewing it are..well everyone.

    That is why it is such a huge industry because "everyone" indulges in it.Lawyers,doctors,Plumbers,the guy waiting on you at your version of the Quickmart.

    99.9% of people reading,watching,or looking at it go about their lives with no adverse effects,but just like with anything else involving stimulation the .1% get all the headlines and many times such stimulus as games,porn,books,you name it had zero to do with their crimes.

    There are troubled people.These people will always do things out of the ordinary no matter what outside influence they are exposed to..and there are thosee always willing to believe that is the case.

    There is nothing wrong with porn,or for that,watching a football game,or playing softball,or watching youtube..People searching for outside stimuli because,well,thats what we do to make it through the day.
  • Anonymous
    " Many with a computer especially those who are single and lonely watch this stuff at least occasionally due to its easy access in the internet coupled with the incessant desire to fulfill fantasies that can never be achieved in the real world. . As a real life Aspie, I never had the chance for relationships like many of my peers whom I've grown up with in this rapidly advancing world had. Whenever I see others the same age as me with a girlfriend, I envy them and wonder when can it be my time ? My personal bouts with my social captivity gave me a glimpse of why people are the way they sometimes are . Sexual addiction is a social void that needs to be filled with love, compassion, and communication from others along with meaningful activities outside the subject of sex............"
  • Honestly what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business. If they decide to make it a commercial enterprise, again that is their business. Literally... So long as no crimes are committed and they pay their taxes, I do not view it as a concern.

    Sex is one of those weird issues where people who are on the far right turn into people on the far left... and what we get is this odd-sexual-nanny-state. But irony is apparently a hell of a lot more powerful than sex...
  • I think the "Great Porn Debate" is a slippery slope that's not worthing going down on a few fronts.

    I don't like the idea of censoring ideas or expression, and outlawing porn is exactly that -- First "porn" (whatever that means, then "like porn" , then Art, then... the list goes on.

    Some people might say that porn is a trend among criminals and sex offenders. That may be true, but these people have a lot of other things in common - regression analysis always shows these things to be coincidence. The porn economy is 10-12 Billion dollars in the US alone. US box office receipts for the non-adult movie industry -- just hit 10 billion. Porn makes more money than Hollywood.

    My point is that virtually everybody interacts with pornography -- they just don't like to admit it. Because its so taboo, they say "Oh no, not me! That's for criminals!" Then they go to church where they listen to a man in a dress speak about morals, before he goes into a back room an rapes a 12 year old boy.

    Sorry, can't resist a joke about priests raping alter boys. It's too ironic given your reasoning for posting this.

    Anyways... The scarier slippery slope, for me, is what cultures turn to when porn becomes illegal. Cough, Japan, Cough Cough.

    In japan, you can't show naughty bits -- the videos are all pixelated there.

    So they came up with 2 workarounds:

    1- Streaming video sex from the US ( in live rooms too )
    2- Really fucked up porn.

    Japanese porn fucking scares me. It's terrifying. And its completely fucked up their entire country.

    First there are the tons of cartoons that are only x-rated... but then there are the ones that have demons and tentacles raping and dismembering school girls in s&m scenes.

    Want a plastic robotic girlfriend? Japan.

    Want to watch a video where 2 schoolgirls get naked and vomit on each other, but don't have sex because it's pixelated? Japan.

    Want to buy a computer toy, where you get to fondle, molest and rape virtual cartoon girls on your computer? Japan.

    Want to buy used girls underwear out of a vending machine ? Japan.

    Want to see a crazed, scary, sexually unhealthy society that is nearly sociopathic -- all due to outlawing porn? Japan.
  • Ted_Goodlove
    What? Japan sells plastic robot girlfriends?
  • boinkity
    That's news to me... I thought they were made out of rubber!
  • Ted_Goodlove
    Demons and Tentacles? Holy crap, I'm definitely not going to Japan anytime soon. Can I change my neutral vote on porn?
  • boinkity
    I thought Japanese men were pervs because Japanese women only wanted to date American white dudes. Then again, I've heard that most women in the world only want to date American white dudes because they are all cuddly like Kevin James
  • Kinda* sounds like they guy who was making comments about pron leading to all sorts really had a boilerplate opinion and shoe horned it as a comment into your blog.

    *Totally
  • redeyedanne
    Alison, I think your observations are astute but my position is that your houseguest should have concealed his magazines...and I should conceal mine. Sex, in ANY of its incarnations, is supposed to be private, and bringing it out into the sunlight is rude and inconsiderate of the host's feelings, or any other passersby that may pass through the neighborhood while one is pursuing his porn in a setting that does not guarantee privacy. You see, it's not until you bring your behavior into the public eye that it becomes a public issue.
  • from another site I'm on:
    from Nina Hartley (she's been inthe biz for over 20 years)

    "As a kinky feminist who makes porn I find the arguments raised against it by anti-porn feminists to be no more valid than than raised by religious fanatics.

    Neither gives credit to consenting adults to watch or read what they please, or create explicit sexual expression of their desires and fantasies without doing harm to others.

    For all the talk about the 'harms" of pornography there remains no credible scientific evidence whatsoever that said "harms" pose any significant threat to society at large, or that abusive practices toward female performers of the type alleged by anti-porn activists represent a widespread problem within our industry.

    The fact that some feminists really, really, really don't like porn doesn't make porn bad. The fact that there is bad porn out there doesn't make porn per se bad. Society gets the porn it deserves and if we don't like what's out there, we need to make our own and not worry about the rest.

    The one harm of which I am certain is that done to the feminist movement by the eternal wrangling over what amounts to a minor matter of personal preference. I would expect people who've heard similar arguments advanced against all kinds of sexual behavior other than that expressly sanctioned by whatever group would know this."
  • TrappDog
    Sounds like a subject for Dr. Drew. Maybe he'd agree to be a guest? I wouldn't go around telling people what they can and can't do, but I have my concerns about the human animal's tendency to become obsessed with powerful things like sex. I believe that many unscrupulous people exploit this, particularly among minors, encouraging them not simply to embrace their sexuality, but to pursue it.

    I don't want to be a stick in the mud, I don't think that it's wrong for consenting adults can have fun with porn, but any sex and relationship therapist that I've ever heard, has cautioned about the danger to young people who are likely not mature enough to handle the emotions that go with intimacy, and also about the personal disconnect that can result from too much reliance on the artificial stimuli. (Stimulus? Stimuli?) I think there's a fine line between sexual liberation and enslavement to desire.

    And to conclude with a really old world view, I think that men are stupid horn dogs who need to be kept on a leash by women.
  • Well said Ms. Rosen, although I had almost reached the point (in a post-Ghost movie release world) where I could look at a potter's wheel without a sexual subtext.

    About the question of exploitation raised in the comments -

    The problem with assessing whether porn stars are exploited is that it inevitably devolves into a question of whether that person making the judgment would personally feel uncomfortable with those working conditions. One could argue that football is equally exploitative because players risk head injuries or medical interns are exploited by the amount of hours they are expected to work. Even in mainstream acting, how much does the audition process undermine a person's self esteem? Or young lawyers working cases who receive a disproportionate amount of the credit for trials that are won?

    To me its just like soda taxes or zoning regulations on fast food restaurants. I wouldn't want someone making a decision on whether my lifestyle choice is rational based on what that person would feel is right for their own life.

    Respectfully,

    Jason
  • Joe
    My main concern with the porn industry is that people can be exploited, especially very young girls. I don't think it happens as much now as it did 30 or 40 years ago, but I'm sure it still occurs. That would be a great question to ask Courtney!

    And I don't think porn turns people into sex offenders, just like I don't think firing a gun turns people into murderers. In fact, banning porn would probably cause more problems. Look at what happened during the prohibition of alcohol in the 1920s. It just went underground. And I think I remember reading that there were more bars in NYC during prohibition than in the years prior.

    However, I do think young people are exposed to sex too early through explicit advertising, music, movies and other media -- and I think that has a very negative impact.
  • bringerofchill
    Alison, as a person that graduated with a college degree in psychology I would have to disagree with the thesis that the poster has presented. Studies show that adult video viewing does not lead to any of these things and is actually a very healthy release for both sexes. At this time I'm not going to go back and find all my research, but i'm sure if the original poster wanted to search for peer-reviewed journals they would find that their comments are nothing more then propaganda against the adult film industry.
  • Outlander
    To me, the question is whether you want to do something that may be seen as promoting, encouraging, or even normalizing something that exploits and degrades women--which many folks argue porn does. But I suspect that your guest would argue that porn is not exploitive or degrading because she freely chose to go into it, she obeys the law, and she pays her taxes. And, seeing as how we're not living in the Victorian era, there's something to be said for that point of view.

    And let's be honest--this woman is going to be traffic gold for you, and nobody (except maybe your plants) will be taking off their clothes in the process!
  • alisonrosen
    My plants will be taking it all off.
  • Ted_Goodlove
    Yeah! What she said! Alison is right...okay, I watch it! Nooooooo! I really don't! Promise, I mean, certainly I've watched it....not sure what guy hasn't! I clicked on a few links on Courtney's twitter page and saw her performing....however, I think the human body is a beautiful thing..human sexuality is the best thing outside of love and a perfect combination when you combine them....oh and fast food is a close 2nd place.

    I would never defend some jack ass that comes on the blog to denounce porn...shit I'd die defending the Bill of Rights so someone could make porn, watch porn or hate it.

    So in other words, I'm neutral on the issue....anyone know of any good RedTube links?

    Oh and Courtney is a beautiful woman....and I'm quite confident that with all your female guests, I will compliment her hair....even if she calls in.

    Did my post make any sense?
  • pablo
    Keep it away from kids - I don't care what you do in your house. Porn has become way to easy to get to and way to streamline and just way too easy for kids to see it. It almost reminds of the days when the tobacco company used to sell candy cigarettes.
  • ASchroederIV
    I couldn't agree with you more. If that is what someone is into, and no one else is being abused in the process, why is it any of my concern. Some people need to worry more about themselves, then the acts of others. Last time I checked, this is America. Land of the free, right?
  • I think perhaps you're missing the point a bit.

    "so long as no one’s being hurt or mistreated"

    What sort of people generally get into porn? I don't put much credence in the majority of them coming from stable backgrounds.

    It isn't only about the consumers, it's about the people making the product. Are they being exploited? Are they being given the care they need, other than medical precautions?

    It's a complicated matter, just like prostitution and drugs. Any time you forbid something of such appeal, you create a black market with even worse abuses than a legitimate industy.


    - Roni
    http://www.roniweiss.com
    http://www.twitter.com/roniweiss
  • alisonrosen
    You bring up a very good point and obviously it's a complicated issue. There are people who want reform of the industry or who are opposed to it because they're worried the sex workers are being exploited. This is very different than a knee jerk "porn is bad, people who make it are sinners" kind of stance which is what I was talking about.
  • Unfortunately, I think in this age of sound bites, everyone tries to encapsulate a complicated issue into something smaller than it truly is. I'm not necessarily saying you did this, but I think there is value in at least discussing the different people involved, both on the ends of consumption and production.

    A lot of ideas are great in theory.

    Even if porn is bad/evil, there are heavy repercussions to banning it. And in the end, people get what they want, legal or otherwise, so there needs to be some balancing of the public interest when creating/maintaining prohibition.

    As long as you keep talking about difficult issues, I'll keep reading (and responding).


    Roni Weiss
    Panelist
    Don't Worry About The Government - a weekly political podcast
    on iTunes and http:/www.dontworry.tv
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